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Europe has an economic hold on the US Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:24:20 GMT No. 25592716 [Kohl] [Report thread]
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Without Europe, the US has difficulty financing its growing national debt. It is a forgotten economic weapon, according to economics professor Niku Määttänen. The US is dependent on Europe – even if its president, Donald Trump, does not want to say it outright. In the past, it has often been said that China has an economic hold on the US in the form of a large holding of US government bonds. However, compared to China, Europe owns a significantly larger share of the US national debt. In total, European countries own over $2,700 billion of US national debt, while China owns only $760 billion. The only difference is, of course, that Europe is not a single country and therefore needs to make joint decisions to exploit this hold. If European politicians were to advise banks and institutions to stop buying US government bonds or even sell their holdings, it would have devastating consequences for the US economy. The interest rates on these government loans would skyrocket. However, economics professor Niku Määttänen at the University of Helsinki says that it is not so easy to use this means of pressure, as it would also mean losses for European investors. – The moment a country or investor starts dumping US government bonds, the value of these securities plummets. Therefore, economists have not seen this as a realistic scenario so far. As long as there are other investors around the world who are willing to buy US government bonds, the effect of a European sale would also be limited. Although most people have so far dismissed this idea, the situation has actually changed, says Määttänen. – The US national debt has continued to grow, and economists are starting to question whether the US can really manage its debt. If confidence in US economic policy and the independence of the central bank begins to wane, this could in itself lead to higher interest rates on US government bonds and increased risk for investors. The US is no longer seen as such a safe haven for investors. This is something that European politicians can benefit from. – I don’t see that Europe can directly use the US national debt as a weapon for pressure, but I do believe that Trump’s economic policy can achieve the same effect. Elon Musk addressed the cabinet the other week about the economic problems facing the US. The US is paying more in interest on its national debt than the entire US defense budget, he said. This is a warning sign that usually indicates a great power is in decline. Why does Europe continue to buy US government bonds despite the Trump administration so openly acknowledging the problems? – It’s the money that speaks. You get a sufficiently good return on the investment and no one seriously believes that the US economy will collapse, says Niku Määttänen. Elon Musk used the interest rate as a way to highlight the necessity of saving on public spending. But Niku Määttänen condemns Elon Musk’s savings ministry as a way to reverse the debt. The US cannot save itself from its economic predicament. He believes that the US will ultimately be forced to raise taxes. As the US national debt grows, it could lead to increased demand for other safe investment alternatives. European countries with strong public finances, such as Germany, Sweden, Norway and Switzerland, could benefit from increased demand for government bonds. – There may be some good coming out of this, but given today's geopolitical uncertainty, it feels like small consolation.
Total posts: 67, files: 12 (Drowned at Sun, 09 Mar 2025 14:53:50 GMT)
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:29:07 GMT No. 25592737 >>25592757
Grok, make this wall of text shorter.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:32:49 GMT No. 25592757
>>25592737 USA bad and poor Europe good and rich
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:33:49 GMT No. 25592771 >>25592859
It's more like mutual assured destruction. But it could become a feasible idea if Trump goes for the government shutdown over a new budget, since that would raise bond interest close to danger level of 5-6%. Then a small sell-off might be enough to push them into Greece runaway debt crisis.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:34:46 GMT No. 25592782 >>25592818
If it takes the destruction of the world and handing it over to china to fuck over WHITE euros then i'm all for it. Fuck you all :))))
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:42:06 GMT No. 25592817 >>25592823 >>25592854 >>25593064
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>paki rape gangs? I sleep >trucks of peace? I sleep >populational replacement? I sleep >stagnating economy? I sleep <ENDING A WAR KILLING EUROPEANS??? WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING, EUROPE WILL NOW GROW SOME BALLS
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:42:18 GMT No. 25592818
>>25592782 Stfu spic
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:43:07 GMT No. 25592823 >>25592831
>>25592817 That IQ pot image is made by low IQ people. The brown mass at end is still 100IQ
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:43:48 GMT No. 25592828 >>25592833 >>25592836
Blah blah blah Look fuckhead we tied you in with us if we get fucked SO DO YOU It's not 1305 we live in globohomo you will suffer greatly for wrenching power from Moshi's most prized golem For fucks sake kikes and glowniggers physically live with us my neighbors are Jews kek
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:44:37 GMT No. 25592831 >>25592837
>>25592823 no it isnt you fucking retard
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:44:58 GMT No. 25592833 >>25592842
>>25592828 I wish it was still the 14th century
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:45:31 GMT No. 25592836 >>25592842 >>25592850
>>25592828 We are not in the same boat yours is an F150 and mine is a reasonably priced small European car
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:45:43 GMT No. 25592837 >>25592946
>>25592831 It's one of our chan federation sites most circulated images fuck him he's a fuck head. Shit skins are dumb as fuck mixing with one is death simple as
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:47:09 GMT No. 25592842 >>25592860
>>25592833 I wish a lot of things >>25592836 What? What I'm saying is we have interconnection and alliances there is no reason to fuck over someone you're enmeshed with as it's mutually bad
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:48:40 GMT No. 25592850
>>25592836 Debt is abhorrent but in a Jewish system China buying our debt is actually a show of friendship and a good thing They don't invade Taiwan for a reason all of their trading partners will be punished It's not about war anymore it's about TRADE
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:49:09 GMT No. 25592854 >>25592857
>>25592817 But European woman is hot, I don't understand your point
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:49:40 GMT No. 25592857 >>25592875
>>25592854 Well their won't be hot women anymore when you rape mangle and genocide them kek
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:50:25 GMT No. 25592859
>>25592716 The US Feds had to bail out Europe post-2008 because of their love of American debt. >If European politicians were to advise banks and institutions to stop buying US government bonds or even sell their holdings, it would have devastating consequences for the US economy. The interest rates on these government loans would skyrocket. The problem is there's no actual alternatives. Europe doesn't want to spend at the same rate as America and there's no demand to borrow money anywhere like in America. You need to rapidly increase spending somehow and demand for money/credit from banks domestically but Europe doesn't want to do that voluntarily so Europe needs to depend on American demand until that changes. >Elon Musk addressed the cabinet the other week about the economic problems facing the US. Musk is a fucking retard who doesn't understand that the US government is a monopolist and price setter. The US Fed sets the nominal rate of interest not the bond market, Musk doesn't understand that but Trump probably somewhat does. >>25592771 >But it could become a feasible idea if Trump goes for the government shutdown over a new budget, since that would raise bond interest close to danger level of 5-6%. How would transferring more wealth to private sector bondholders be "devastating"? Aren't they the "job creators" Musk/Trump want to transfer spending power to away from the government bureaucracy? Destroying the public budget and making the private sector richer is what they supposedly want. >Then a small sell-off might be enough to push them into Greece runaway debt crisis. Greece uses the Euro, if Greece couldn't get Euros through selling bonds than they couldn't spend without raising taxes. America uses dollars, if America can't sell bonds that doesn't actually stop the government from spending, everyone trying to fire sale their dollar saving assets ends up harming them more than America lol
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:50:39 GMT No. 25592860 >>25592880 >>25592910 >>25592912
>>25592842 What do you wish for ? :)
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:52:41 GMT No. 25592875 >>25592884
>>25592857 They are hot, so we need to rape. Are you not incel?
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:53:46 GMT No. 25592880
>>25592860 Realistically or the fourth Reich?
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:53:51 GMT No. 25592881 >>25592890 >>25592939
Trump would rather have the entire country default on debt and fall into a depression than raise taxes. I don't blame him though. The taxes are already too damn high and we spend too damn much. Doge has good intentions
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:54:16 GMT No. 25592884
>>25592875 Ook aaak where the white woman at
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:55:12 GMT No. 25592890 >>25592908
>>25592881 Our economy shall improve he already proved that. Now is the time to play the stock market and make a little cash bernd.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:55:40 GMT No. 25592892 >>25592903
Actually US borrow form itself printing money from thin iar. then is japan and china
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:58:21 GMT No. 25592903
>>25592892 Yeah Liberty and debt are the primary tools of the Jew. One glance at our debt clock should stop your heart and cause cardiac arrest. Oh by the way our states ALSO are in massive ungodly unpayable debt as well. Most of our debt is to ourselves (Jews) them after that outsourced to other countries to be as in debt as humanly possible
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:59:52 GMT No. 25592908 >>25592916
>>25592890 Playing the stock market is selling out to the NWO, faggot
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:59:59 GMT No. 25592910 (removed)
>>25592860 For Adolf Hitler to manifest from a dead Austrian body into a shimmering undefeatable ball of godly light and aura freeing my people and settling earth into lasting peace
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:00:37 GMT No. 25592912
>>25592860 For Adolf Hitler to manifest from a dead Austrian boy into a shimmering undefeatable ball of godly light and aura freeing my people and settling earth into lasting peace
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:01:07 GMT No. 25592916 >>25592930 >>25592939
>>25592908 Your IRA/401k is the stock market you stupid bastard.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:02:06 GMT No. 25592920
Simply default, who gives le fuck? A london rating agency? Lmao
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:03:52 GMT No. 25592930 >>25595383
>>25592916 Don't have one lol, you're a faggot. And if I did, i would admit to myself im investing in jews and cancer and niggers and dei and faggot shit and the NWO and the us government
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:05:26 GMT No. 25592939 >>25592956 >>25595390
>>25592881 >Trump would rather have the entire country default on debt and fall into a depression than raise taxes. You can have lower taxes and higher deficits obviously. That's how Reagonomics worked in practice. >Doge has good intentions You have no idea Musk is trying to do. They want Germanoid balanced budgets and higher taxes through EU style consumption taxation. You will pay the government more for less if Musk wins and be owed notting. >>25592916 >Your IRA/401k is the stock market you stupid bastard. Isn't Trump creating a national wealth fund based on crypto? You're going to have to transfer a bunch of wealth from the corporate sector to nationalized crypto assets for that to work.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:06:25 GMT No. 25592946 >>25593070
>>25592837 My point is that you are just as dumb as those dumbfuck shitskins. Americans mutting up the country, yes the average IQ of all americans decreases if compared to other countries. BUT the IQ of americans in american IQ tests will still be 100 for the average population of america Thats the whole point of IQ tests that are normalized to 100
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:07:45 GMT No. 25592956 >>25593029
>>25592939 I want the government to be fiscally responsible. Doing european style spending and raising taxes a small amount is a price I would pay for fiscal conservatism from my government. Its never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever gonna happen though. Too many whiny niggers.
CHATGPT Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:09:20 GMT No. 25592972
The US is heavily reliant on Europe to finance its growing national debt, with European countries holding over $2,700 billion of US debt, compared to China's $760 billion. Although European nations have significant leverage, using it as a weapon is complicated due to potential losses for European investors and the presence of other global buyers. Economists are increasingly questioning the US's ability to manage its debt, especially as confidence in its economic policies wavers, potentially raising interest rates. Despite growing concerns, Europe continues to invest in US bonds due to the attractive returns, with no immediate belief that the US economy will collapse. Niku Määttänen suggests that the US may ultimately need to raise taxes to address its debt, though European countries could benefit from increased demand for their own bonds as a safer investment alternative.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:20:03 GMT No. 25593029 >>25593039 >>25593088
>>25592956 >I want the government to be fiscally responsible. Thing is government is a monopolist. If you think being responsible means not using monopolistic powers when you have it than isn't that irresponsible? Who is the government responsible to and for? >Doing european style spending and raising taxes a small amount is a price I would pay for fiscal conservatism from my government. European fiscal policy caused massive economic stagnation. "Fiscal conservatism" means acting as if the government is a market actor like any other which obviously ain't so and imposes lots of costs on people.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:22:29 GMT No. 25593039 >>25593045 >>25593121
>>25593029 The government should be fiscally responsible so interest rates and national debts don't go sky high. >Treating the government like a regular market actor leads to economic stagnation Eu is an extremely poor example due to their large sweeping economic regulations. Ultimately as an ancap I believe the economy gets more stimulated the less the government touches it. It seems like it imposes a lot of costs on people, but it's because the government prints money out of thin air and creates value out of thin air and people depend on these handouts that are killing us
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:23:24 GMT No. 25593045 >>25593052
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>>25593039 >as an ancap 2014 just called they want their "ancaps" back
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:23:54 GMT No. 25593052 >>25593058
>>25593045 Cool story bro, anarcho capitalism is still a valid theory although i admit its farfetched
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:24:37 GMT No. 25593058 >>25593060
>>25593052 No its not a valid theory man America was never libertarian, it doesn't exist, it doesn't work, it has been talked to the ground
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:25:38 GMT No. 25593060 >>25593067
>>25593058 It doesn't have to he compatible with anything. and I can still like it and want it, faggot. Its a free world... Jk not in Europe
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:26:24 GMT No. 25593064
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>>25592817 >ENDING A WAR KILLING EUROPEANS??? But drumpf wants videorelated.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:27:04 GMT No. 25593067 >>25593079
>>25593060 Its not a free world, you are not free. You'll never be free from your neighbours and others.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:27:18 GMT No. 25593070
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>>25592946 >BUT the IQ of americans in american IQ tests will still be 100 for the average population of america >Thats the whole point of IQ tests that are normalized to 100
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:27:53 GMT No. 25593071 >>25593074 >>25593078
If America was threatened by someone fucking with their fairy tale fiat system, they'd just change the rules and say "Fuck you" to the rest of the world.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:28:41 GMT No. 25593074 >>25593084 >>25593086 >>25593086
>>25593071 this its fucking cringe this dumb theatre, america should just say that they own this place and thats the end of it, why play this elaborate game?
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:29:23 GMT No. 25593078 SÄGE!
>>25593071 based
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:29:47 GMT No. 25593079 >>25593089
>>25593067 In America, its a free world when it comes to personal beliefs and self expression. I get that I don't have god control and that the US of A is deeply flawed and is still a state. But, in America we have the right to a fair trial, the right to silence, the right not to incriminate, the right of self expression, and the right of free speech. Many euro countries are inferior in this regard.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:30:23 GMT No. 25593084 (removed)
>>25593074 But trump adminbis trying to pull out of world policeman role
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:30:44 GMT No. 25593086
>>25593074 >>25593074 But trump admin is trying to pull out of world policeman role
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:31:04 GMT No. 25593088
>>25593029 > European fiscal policy caused massive economic stagnation. Is this really true? European countries had a collection of different fiscal policies over the last decade. We saw looser fiscal policies leading to runaway debt crises in PIIGS. Tighter fiscal policies in the UK saw 0% inflation with good deficit reduction and a relatively strong currency (until Brexit). And the tightest fiscal policies saw pretty quick rebounds from the 2008 crash like in Germany. The usual leftie argument for unlimited spending typically cites low interest as an excuse to spend more. But that ignores the fact that interest rates were only low because of investor confidence in the governments ability to control their borrowing. If we had all splurged like Greece then all of Europe would have gone tumbling down with them.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:31:05 GMT No. 25593089 >>25593099
>>25593079 > But, in America we have the right to a fair trial, the right to silence, the right not to incriminate, the right of self expression, and the right of free speech Yes that is true, and what you don't seem to get is that this costs alot of money. And someone has to pay for that.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:31:49 GMT No. 25593093 >>25593106 >>25593132
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Trump is growing the debt much more. Republicans are terrible at balancing the budget.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:33:04 GMT No. 25593099 >>25593109
>>25593089 Nobody has to pay for rights. States/authority/people in power have to pay people not in power (soldiers, policeman) to stomp on your rughts.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:33:55 GMT No. 25593106
>>25593093 The rich were taxed too much already. And the poor needed to be taxed a little more.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:34:50 GMT No. 25593109 >>25593114
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>>25593099 >Nobody has to pay for rights Yes they do my fren. You think police officers do it "for free"? roflmao
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:36:27 GMT No. 25593114
>>25593109 Police officers don't protect rights. Politicians don't protect rights. The only thing that really protects rights are courts, judges, and the piece of paper attached to the constitution written up by Jefferson and amended throughout time
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:36:52 GMT No. 25593121 >>25593135 >>25593149 >>25593150
>>25593039 >The government should be fiscally responsible so interest rates and national debts don't go sky high. Like I said the government is a monopolist, they can set nominal rates at any level they want. Congress handed the power over to the federal reserve for setting nominal rates by technocratic experts but they could easily just fix rates if they want at any level or give the power to Trump or whatever. Anyways government acting as if they're not a monopolist would mean nominal rates should free float more? >Ultimately as an ancap I believe the economy gets more stimulated the less the government touches it. It's only "stimulus" going from one state to another e.g. you can stimulate things by getting rid of regulations on lending critirion or something but you can only do that once. When there's no regulations you can't stimulate anything by removing regulations. >It seems like it imposes a lot of costs on people, but it's because the government prints money out of thin air and creates value out of thin air and people depend on these handouts that are killing us Fiscal conservativism means you get no government handouts but have to pay more costs so the government can hoard assets for itself. It's different from ancap no government at all idea.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:38:35 GMT No. 25593132
>>25593093 Probably not. Estimates on Trump's incoming budget aren't really possible because it hasn't been released yet though it should come soon. Given that they are crushing the structure of government into smithereens, American debtholders should have the confidence in the government to cut back on any type of spending necessary. Including benefits for pensioners, the disabled and ex servicemen.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:39:24 GMT No. 25593135 >>25593183
>>25593121 You can't just put interest rates where ever u want to. Its a balance and a ton of thinking goes into changing it even a fraction of a percentage. That's where you're wrong
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:42:41 GMT No. 25593149 >>25593183
>>25593121 Id rather have a small government with a positive equity than a massive wasteful inefficient government ran on debt
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:42:56 GMT No. 25593150 >>25593183
>>25593121 > government sets own rates > USD = monopoly money, literally > everyone panic sells dollar denom assets There's a reason modern countries have independent central banks. I'll concede that many may generally only be arms-length independent of the government, but some separation of rate-setting power from budget-setting power is valued by investors both domestic and intl.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:47:01 GMT No. 25593158
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I’m amazed how fast Trump has managed to fuck up the American economy.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:56:10 GMT No. 25593183 >>25593242
>>25593135 >You can't just put interest rates where ever u want to. Its a balance and a ton of thinking goes into changing it even a fraction of a percentage. That's where you're wrong You literally can. The US Federal Reserve obviously sets the base interest rate today however they think they should. There's no reason the US congress couldn't abolish the Fed tomorrow and just fix the rate of interest at zero. You can't control real rates obviously but how good is the US Federal Reserve at controlling real rates? >>25593149 >Id rather have a small government with a positive equity than a massive wasteful inefficient government ran on debt Only a small country can have a small government really and you know it. A big country will always have a big government, if it owns a lot of assets it's just stuff you can't own. >>25593150 People end up with dollar assets because they trade with America, if they refuse to stop that they're stuck dealing with dollars. >There's a reason modern countries have independent central banks. What do you mean by "modern countries"? Looked into when all those central banks were established. Bank of england is from the 17th century... not very "modern". Governments used to fix their currency against commodities like gold/silver and that really did cause a different set of issues. Modern countries have central banks because they're legacies of how the world used to work and no serious reforms have happened. Why do you think America lets something like the Fed sets interest rates but would never try to let something be set up to control taxes/spending similarly? Why is trying to control business cycles or the price level one way acceptable and is done everywhere but the other isn't?
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:58:54 GMT No. 25593193
Look mom, I'm posting in a Europoor cope thread!
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 14:10:24 GMT No. 25593242 >>25593275
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>>25593183 > There's no reason the US congress couldn't abolish the Fed tomorrow and just fix the rate of interest at zero. ...
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 14:18:27 GMT No. 25593275
>>25593242 All the open market operations of the Fed aren't really complex and could be done without all the make work going on there. Fixing base rates at zero today isn't something complex, before the Fed existed other branches of the government were doing actually more tedious monetary work... but all the anti-Fed people in congress today are goldbugs/bought by crypto lobby so abolishing the Fed in reality would just mean congress starts using bitcoin to tax and spend or something like that. There's no real populist movement here.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 19:11:35 GMT No. 25595383
>>>>25592930 I'm a faggot because you're not saving for retirement? I'm trying to help you bernd.
Bernd Sat, 08 Mar 2025 19:12:32 GMT No. 25595390
>>25592939 Fuck the news it's always something everyone is obsessed about i doubt crypto will change our financial landscape It made like two people rich so now souless normies recognize it
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