COBOL. You will write full sentences or nothing at all.

Assembly. Don't call yourself programmer if you can't do something only via direct CPU calls.

Pascal is terrible.

Just look at this program. There's an "end.". There is also an "end". And they are not the same. Horrors beyond your comprehension await.

And "end;"

It is indeed much better designed than C but programming languages have moved on. I only ever see Russians still talking about it for some reason.

>>25468067 That's one way to phrase it.

>>25468042 >using an assembler Quite frankly if you don't code in 1s and 0s you are an amateur.

>pascal >2k23

>>25468119 >23

Pascal was developed by a teacher as a better way to teach coding to kids. And sure enough Pascal is immensely superior to all programming languages of the time as a teaching tool. Arguably even now Pascal instills in kids better understanding of coding than Python as Python less rigid in structure. As a coding environment Pascal-family languages aren't that great though. NB: And the best way to introduce kids to the physical level of a computing system organization is Assembly languages with heavy use of direct machine commands.

Who cares. You're a prompt engineer now. You need to do better.

>>25468139 >And sure enough Pascal is immensely superior to all programming languages of the time as a teaching tool. No. Absolutely not. Tcl was also developed by a teacher and it sucks too.

>>25468158 >absolutely not Which language is better to teach all the basics of programming to kids? Surely you don't mean antiquated direct-jump languages like FORTRAN and BASIC, do you? Man, if you say "absolutely" about anything, you HAVE TO state the explanation. Here you rejected that Pascal was better for teaching kids than other languages existing in the same times. Then you have to tell what other language, existing back then, was better than Pascal as a teaching tool. So?

>>25468172 The basics? You mean like loops, conditions, variables and stuff? Some scripting language like Lua, Ruby, Javascript will do fine for that purpose. Back in the day people used Basic as an entry language. From there you can move on to the compiled languages. C can help very much to understand how abstractions are built.

I imagine compiled languages being very demotivating to kids. Especially a rusty one like Pascal.

>>25468181 >The basics? yeah, the BASICS, you fucken stupid cocksucker. Pascal is an imperative programming language. kinda 1 step before the nowadays ruling object-ori-languages. for learning languages it is perfect.

What is a kid to you? What age are we talking about?

>>25468192 Well, Lua isn't all that object oriented.

>>25468192 >kinda 1 step before the nowadays ruling object-ori-languages. btw modern pascal is totally aping C++. They literally copied the C++ string that stores a pointer, a length but behind the pointer you have a C string with a null terminator. https://wiki.freepascal.org/Character_and_string_types#AnsiString

there's only one king of programming languages running on 3.2 billion devices worldwide you'd have to be dumb to choose anything else

I learned Pascal in high school on an old Macintosh taught by an old woman who used to work in a bank.

>>25468219 ...and most of them are bluray players.

>>25468043 >Pascal is terrible. This. The syntax is worse than rape.

>>25468224 cope

>>25468234 By your logic it's better to write JS.

they taught me this crap at highschool 20 years ago when it was already completely obsolete

>>25468237 Java runs on BD players and on enterprise class clusters of servers it shows how versatile and scallable it is try doing that in your faggy pascal

>>25468247 same but 25 years ago

>>25468237 >By your logic it's better to write JS JS, as a bootleg ECMA script had a clear use case, and that is client side browser stuff java had the goal of running on everything

>>25468219 Javascript runs on 10 trillion android phones

>>25468257 exactly ytully the greatest programming language ever conceived

>>25468257 jewascript is only for bowsers. Don’t try to write apps on in, you hipster

>>25468249 It's only used for shitty main menus to select from where you want to start your movie or whether you want to watch shitty behind the scenes extras and outtakes. Java is not involved in any of the actual playback. >>25468249 But I didn't advertise pascal itt retard.

>>25468271 Java is amazing it runs your banks back end and front end and credit card terminals and your car enterntainment and your company's payroll processing software each day is made better for you by Java you are a philistine

>>25468249 > try doing that in your faggy pascal You can write in pascal everything you can write in java. The only obstacles is lack of libraries indeed, nowadays Lazaurs is best way to write cross-platform gui apps

>>25468304 >yuo can do the same! >except not lmao

>>25468314 write libs you need. Pascal will do better since compiler is faster, produces faster code, uses less memory than java

>>25468302 >it runs your banks back end and front end and credit card terminals and your car enterntainment and your company's payroll processing software My bank is awful, car entertainment software is awful, company software is awful.

>>25468323 >just do all the work yourself just do it in machinecode while you at it lmao

>>25468339 If you are for libs, just say that you like lib_name. Why people are talking about programming languages meaning the libraries?

>>25468304 >Lazaurs Maybe I should give this a try and see how much Pascal I remember from high school. Is it like Borland Turbo Pascal or ThinkPascal?

>>25468438 It's configurable

Delphi was the best.

>>25468438 It’s like Delphi 6

>>25468632 clojure ))))

>>25468632 >>25468689 What about Kotlin? Why do java niggers make everything so complicated?

>>25468689 Scheme is the real thing from SICP

>>25468017 >Pascal is better than C They are really close.

>>25468504 More like Delphi 2 because it cannot into packages. But the executables are like 20 times larger.

Pascal was the first language that was taught to me. I don't remember much, just that it was shit.

>>25468958 You can install packages but you have to compile lazarus each time http://packages.lazarus-ide.org

>>25468958 and size of executable file is large in comparison to Delphi but we live in time where average size of an app which does nothing is 100Mb. So lazarus 7Mb app is really small

We used to learn Pascal in middle school in the 90s.

Because you can reserve engineer with C = better hacker.

The only REAL coding language is BASIC. Everything after that was a mistake.

I already learned Pascal and it's a good language, although the syntax sucks. It's also very similar to C all in all, another imperative efficient language, it just has some 0-cost abstractions that C doesn't.

>>25468825 This paper is referenced in OSTEP and it's not accessible on the internet. This hurts my autism

Is Delphi still alive?

>>25469539 Absolutely.

[code][/code]

Nobody uses Pascal other than retarded boomers, who also force this shit on school kids in rushka. Kids should start with C and x86 assembly

>>25469539 Delphi is a language for a 25 yo interface of some fucking proprietary printer interface. It pays well, because nobody wants to work on that shit, but it's kinda dumb to work on the stuff that's totally irrelevant these days, unless you do a rewrite in something that is even a tad more modern

>Pascal is better than C that's not a high bar you could hit your dick against the keyboard a dozen times, come up with a specification that explains how those random characters you typed are a coherent programming language and it would still be better than loLC

>>25476254 nobody uses C besides imageboard skiddos

[code][/code]

I did learn Pascal, and wrote in Delphi for some time too. It's comparable with C89, some minor things are better, some are worse. Compile time was much better as far as I remember, but that only mattered in the 90s.

I would agree that Pascal is better than C, but C has better interoperability and more library support.

pascal and turbo pascall (delphi) have some niche uses in industry since it was a somewhat popular choice besides visual basic in times of shitty embedded computer backed ui. but its all webshit there these days either so you'll only find it on legacy. the entire usecase has been covered by c# these days even the retarded activex shit can be made in c# or c++. never really saw anything great about it

Who is this Pascal guy? And why does he need to be freed?

>>25480424 How old are you??

>>25468228 > tell me you don't understand compilers without saying you don't understand compilers

>>25480512 Nobody who uses Pascal does, otherwise it'd have an implementation as efficient as C considering the language has a design about as efficient as C.

Even if i spend 10 hours a day training how to code properly, AI will forever be better now. By the time i learn to be as good as chat gpt, chat gpt already will have improved to be even better.

>>25480521 pascal is easier to parse, which is why they used to use it on CS courses in 90s to teach such (see capon and jinks book)

>>25480527 AI isn't good.

>>25480546 You are wrong.

>>25480547 AI can generate trivial boilerplate code and copy paste common algorithms. Even there it makes mistakes.

>>25480560 You are like 3 years behind. AI now can write me a game with a genetic algorithm, where the agents all use language to actually think what their next step will be, and need to eat and spend energy while walking, and they can have offspring with other agents, and then you get 50/50 genetic mixture plus 10% mutation, so you can simulate evolution. And all this first try. Give any topic, and some scripter kiddy with AI will give in 24 hours better code than you could. Its literally better than 90% of paid programmers. And this is the worst it will ever be. Its only gonna improve from here.

>>25468017 Yes, Poland invented Pascal.

>>25480528 The syntax contains ambiguity and requires context. It's in the same class as C.

I'm not a fucking 68 year old low level retard who argues on alt.net boards with greybeards and is on some mailing list where Linus calls people retards for not autistically perfectly stream-lining some insane abstraction. I write Java and TypeScript to pay my mortgage and feed my kids and I don't fucking care.

>>25480528 Only because C is hard to parse. Pascal isn't exactly easy to parse.

>>25480528 Only because C++ is hard to parse. Pascal isn't exactly easy to parse but probably about the same as C.

>>25480594 this is why I love kc, domain experts on every subject

>>25480647 pascal has some purity where you can use recursive descent etc. c has some snags needing lookahead and backtracking also when you get into the instruction side, pascal is much easier to work through (academically) ... even though see is much closer to machine code etc. too pissed to get into debate on it

>>25468158 I only once something in TCL and it was just fine.

BTW, the least sucky framework for writing Windows installers, InnoSetup, is written in Pascal and uses Pascal as its extension language. t. had to write some 100-200LoC of Pascal just last month.

>>25480608 I bet you maintain Perl scripts and drink Starbucks

>>25468302 Java even runs on 10 years old phones.

>>25480744 the fuck i do nigga, i drink lidl instant coffee with 3 sugars and long-life shelf milk and wear old hoodies and trackie bottoms.

>>25468302 >banks back end and front end and credit card terminals and your car enterntainment and your company's payroll processing software So all the things that are notorious for having terrible, broken software.

>>25480773 also, I write JAVA, you fucking pleb, the absolute unchallenged boring robust industry standard. the ULTIMATE wagielang for devs who, when asked what a Microservice is, will call you a gay zoomer and leave.

>Why don’t you learn Pascal? i don't learn nothing of wirth.

>>25480728 Also some file managers are done in Pascal.

>>25480840 kek

>>25480701 >pascal is much easier to work through (academically) yes, in the business of bullshitting.

>>25480728 >Windows installers Glorified unpackers. You can make "installers" with anything including WinRAR.

>>25480723 >I only used it once but have a strong opinion about it.

>>25480993 It worked well and was not hard to learn.

>>25480961 No because Windows is not simple. You can have the installer localized in several languages, you have to handle uninstallation also, you might want to handle updating an existing install and only changing what needs to be changed, give the option between user or machine installs, support portable installs and system installs at the same time, create an icon on the desktop, create an icon on the start menu, add to $PATH, have an additional command line interface so installation or uninstallation can be automated, install MSVCRT or a particular version of DirectX or whatever optional Windows component you depend on, refuse to run on a version of Windows you don't support, produce installers for all the supported Windows architectures, and a lot more.

>>25468017 >Why don’t you learn Pascal? I left school 13 years ago

>>25480961 >Glorified unpackers idiotic opinion

>>25480932 spent first half of life working on compilers ... not fighting about it it's easier to explain how the Pascal code gen works because types, scopes etc. are simpler ... on top of the whole lexer side being very clean (which is why capon and jinks used it) Pascal is perfect lang to get into compiler world ... C makes more sense to engineers when getting into lower level stuff ... but that's a different thing

Because I'm Niggerzilian

>>25468181 >Learn Lua >Arrays start with 1 Congratulations, you now have a major roadblock for learning any other language.

>>25481021 Until you need references.

AI will replace goding so why bother

>>25481142 It's really not a big deal.

>>25481142 Also puts you further into the left field of bad programmer than not being a programmer at all, and then you'll need more effort than someone who never programmed to learn to program properly because you'll have to undo all the Lua malpractice.

>>25481034 >create an icon on the desktop Y-yeah, never. >>25481172 >because you'll have to undo all the Lua malpractice. Such as?

>>25481034 >a particular version of DirectX I know old games always try to do that but iirc it won't actually install anything on modern versions of Windows as deeply integrated and updated only with the system.

>>25468017 >begin >end >:= It is just ugly shit.

>>25480728 Also, the best two-panel file manager on Windows, Total Commander, is also written on Pascal.

>>25481208 >Such as? Luaniggers don't know how to write a program compatible with multiple implementations or versions of implementations because Lua doesn't provide the means, their program only runs on lua or luajit but not both, and every new release is incompatible. They don't know how to distribute a program because Lua doesn't provide the means. They don't know how to write efficient programs because you can't do that in their scriptshitter language If you were to teach a class to Lua niggers, you would have to first explain that "Okay Rajesh, I understand you told the user to install luajit 2.0.1.201whatever, associate it with .lua files, open command prompt, go to the program's directory, and run it, but most don't know how to nobody wants to that, let me show you how to do it such that the user only has to press 'install' and click the icon and it just works." Or "Okay Babu, you see how you have an index and a count variable? You only need the index, you see, the loop starts at index 0, and that's the count of how many iterations you have." Or "Okay Pajeet, I understand you think performance doesn't matter, but people want 2025 computer performance not 1997 computer performance." A complete beginner only has to start learning, a luajeet has to first unlearn before he can learn. >>25481335 >:= This is bretty nice. `=` means equality in normal math, some programming languages then went and decided to make it mean assignment or something. `=` for equality and a new operator for assignment is the way that follows the principle of least surprise. `begin` having to end with `end` or `.` depending on context is really annoying though.

>>25481142 Good start to go Pascal.

>>25481396 >their program only runs on lua or luajit but not both, and every new release is incompatible. Unless table.clear or table.new is used without a fallback I don't see how that could happen. >distribute Luarocks >programs It's an embedded language nigger. It's not meant to compete with python or ruby, The program embedding it will provide most of the functionality for IO. >associate it with .lua You're a windows nigger.

Never learned C and have no reason to learn pascal. Learned c# and c++ in the past but it's been ages and I forgot almost all of it. I don't program, script, or code anything anymore. It's unlikely I will in the future ether.

>>25484310 Learning C is useful for interoperability with other languages.

>>25481142 0-based arrays are a technical limitation, enjoying them is like being proud of a disability why don't you also write b as a, c as b and so on, show the normies what a hacker you are

pascal is the best language did you know you can use pascal a bash script like this instancefpc ./script.pas

I use Double Commander, which is written in Pascal.

>>25488551 It’s cook. It’s like an old Total Commander. But I was a FAR Manager user back than

>>25488551 It’s cool. It’s like an old Total Commander. But I was a FAR Manager user back than

>>25488551 >using a "two panel" file manager lmao what an idiot it's not 1993 you dummy

>>25488551 >>25488709 Even the Linux Mint Cinnamon file manager has two panels. You just need to press F3

>>25481142 >>25487464 rekt >>25488545 You can do the same with C or D. C++ and Rust just have terrible compile times, so you probably wouldn't.

>>25488728 two panel managers were a plaster on the wound that was low resolutions of early 1990's it made sense when all the real estate you had was 320x200, and two folders at once was the most you could get out of it using it nowadays is plain stupid

>>25488742 Open tabs are saved there.

>>25487464 You can always just waste one entry to start at 1.

>>25488742 You used two folders to have target and source both on screen. I don't like it, but it makes sense.

>>25488867 There is no entry wasted in Lua.

>>25488732 > C++ and Rust just have terrible compile times, so you probably wouldn't. That’s the reason. But pascal compiler is fast and unlike C/D it has OOP support and pascal is better as a programming language.

>>25488995 >unlike C/D it has OOP support Wrong. D supports OOP and RAII. >pascal is better as a programming language. You should try D.

>>25489013 D is even more exotic than Pascal

>>25489034 D may not be well known but Pascal is an old hat.

>>25489038 Ok. D looks nice. I’ll take a look